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Post 07-Sep-2007 03:18        

I realize this is like version Alpha -17, but I just didn't want this to slip by simply because nobody had thought of it:
You might want to have the wrists bend similar to the way the elbows do, so that the saber isn't always at a right angle to the forearm. When it's over the player's head it should be, but when he's holding it out in front of him, it should be tilted at an obtuse angle with respect to the forearms.

The only reason I mention this so early is because all the other games I've seen using a system like this did miss it, and kept the sword at a constant 90-degree angle, and that's just inexcusable if you ask me. It looks completely unnatural! :p

In other news, this is looking so awesome. It's still easily my most anticipated project for JK! Keep it up, please!
Hell Raiser
Site Developer
Post 07-Sep-2007 22:30        

<.<

>.>

Well duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh. Lauging

I'm glad someone noticed that actually. Means someones paying attention.

My wording was a bit vauge, I apologize. I've got the arc coded to perform the vertical swing as far as the arms are concerned. The pitching of the wrists actually plays into horizontal swings at well, and thus, will be a vital role in swinging all around. So don't despair, for I have not neglected that detail, just haven't coded it yet. Mr Green You would not believe the amount of hours I've spent swinging a broomstick, noting every detail in every which way I swing.

And btw, what games have used a system like this? Question
Post 08-Sep-2007 03:36        

If I understand the idea correctly, there was an old medieval sword fighting game the name of which I've forgotten... and there's one somebody made using the Torque engine which could have been so much cooler if they had paid more attention to details like that and put some effort into not making the controls ridiculously cumbersome.

I hope you didn't take my suggestion to mean I don't think you're not detail-attentive! It's just, like I said, I've seen it missed before. This is just way too cool to allow it any room for susceptibility to such carelessness, though!
Also, I wanted to make it clear to you that somebody's paying attention... ;)
Hell Raiser
Site Developer
Post 08-Sep-2007 04:52        

Die by the Sword perhaps?

I did a Google search for 'mouse swing sword' and came across Determinance, I believe it's the one you speak of made on the Torque engine. I think I've spent the last few hours playing around in the demo, and the flying thing just ruins it. Although, I think the wrist did pitch when you swung. You could also alter the roll of the wrist for blocking, which I found dumb and useless really. MP consisted of people flying around and past each other, and a bit of random swinging. Playing Determinance confirmed my worst fears with mouse based sword fighting. Can anyone say clunky? =S

I'm so glad I thought of 'swing guide'. Now I know it'll be awesome after playing Determinance. When you start a swing, you'll be committed to that arc and won't be able to deviate until you're through. When's the last time you saw somebody fighting with swords and making circles? The idea is still on the drawing board, and will probably be more in depth than the tiny description I just gave. It spawned from many ideas ago, where I had posted some pictures of points on circles and ****. Not too sure what I was thinking there.

My motto: keep it simple. However there is one issue I noticed that I'm not sure of how to tackle. That being the feeling of not really knowing where or how you're going to swing until you do. I'd like to be able to give complete control without losing control, you know?
Post 08-Sep-2007 14:08        

I know exactly what you mean, and I'm so excited to see you approaching it with this attitude! I feel like the games these days are moving toward a mindset that the more control you give the player, the better - but this simply isn't true! As with everything, in moderation!

Yeah, Determinance is the one I was talking about. I agree, the flying was corny... the thing that bothered me about wrist movement was that it was all manually controlled by the player, which was just clumsy. This is a perfect example of why some things just have to be automated, but you have to be careful with it so that it still feels natural to the player, like having the wrist extend and contract with respect to the pitch of the arms rather than making him manually control the position of the wrist.

The trick is giving the player the illusion of having the most control possible, but you have to build in certain limitations and automations so that it still functions physically true to the way it would in the real world (such as having predefined "swing guides" or whatever so that the player is forced to following through with a swing at a certain point). Like you said, keep it simple.

As for your issue, I don't know your current plans for that but honestly I wouldn't worry about it until you really notice that it's a problem. It might turn out to be something the player can simply get used to and exploit rather well with just a little practice.

I don't know, I'm just doing a lot of talking and rambling now. You're the expert on how all of this works, whereas I really have no experience whatsoever. Keep up the good work!
Hell Raiser
Site Developer
Post 08-Sep-2007 18:31        

I enjoy the rambling. I would hardly say I'm an expert on how all this works, but I've played enough games and watched Star Wars Ep1-6 enough to know what kind of game play experience I want to deliver. The main issue right now is coding in arcs and defining the right ones given certain situations. For example (more automation), when two sabers collide, unlike Determinance, I would like the swinging to continue, for the clashy clashy type saber fights seen in Star Wars. I'd like to have the sabers 'bounce' backwards and then have a pre-determined arc to come back on, but somewhat deviate it/give the player some control so that it's not endless clashy clash. Something like as long as you hold down fire, move the mouse and keep moving into your opponent. I seriously doubt a true Star Wars saber fight would be possible without some some aspects taken care of automatically.

I can see it all in my head, and it looks and plays beautifuly.
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